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#114536 - 01/26/13 01:49 PM Re: Amish style messianic community/farm? [Re: yeshuaslave]
leejosepho Offline
Joseph Lee
Veteran User***

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 3134
Loc: NW Louisiana usa
"Twelve Tribes" might have already been mentioned here in this thread...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tribes_communities

I suspect they are not fully aware of their sectarian bent, but they began during my own youth (early '70s) and I have suggested them to others during more recent days.

http://www.twelvetribes.com/


Edited by leejosepho (01/26/13 01:50 PM)
_________________________
“Please begin at the basic truths and work forward instead of beginning at problematic passages and working backwards.” - varnishke

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#114543 - 01/27/13 09:48 PM Re: Amish style messianic community/farm? [Re: yeshuaslave]
Jauhuchanam Offline
Very Experienced User

Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Germany and Uganda
Originally Posted By: yeshuaslave
there is an obedient community in some places. ..


I wish I could see one, let alone find it.
Sorry, that is what I doubt!!!

To TOP it up: every time I ask - everyone keeps quiet or runs hiding - is my experience.

Do they smell that I know its a trap? Or is it ONLY ME who seems wrong???
_________________________
Jauhuchanam Ulijauhu
Jauhu-cha-nam Uli-jau-hu (Deutsche Aussprache/German pronunciation)
Yao-hoo-cha-nam OO-lee-yao-hoo (pronunciation)

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#114656 - 02/27/13 06:21 AM Re: Amish style messianic community/farm? [Re: Jauhuchanam]
yeshuaslave Offline
Very Experienced User

Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 358
Loc: tulsa
Originally Posted By: Jauhuchanam
Originally Posted By: yeshuaslave
there is an obedient community in some places. ..


I wish I could see one, let alone find it.(MY HOME,YOUR HOME)
Sorry, that is what I doubt!!!(YOU DOUBT YOUR HOME TOO? NOT?)

To TOP it up: every time I ask - everyone keeps quiet or runs hiding - is my experience.(YES, the nazarene communities, the amish and mennonites, etc , are not the body, but act like it) (beware nazarene types, if they are like around here, they are adamantly against the gospel of good news in Yahuahua)
(the mennonite and amish are safe to visit however, as a resting place, to work for a season/decades?)

Do they smell that I know its a trap? Or is it ONLY ME who seems wrong???(ABBA KNOWS)
_________________________
"...suffer persecution so
that, perhaps, take part in
resurrection..." Paul's letter

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#114810 - 04/15/13 04:39 AM Re: Amish style messianic community/farm? [Re: yeshuaslave]
Yah's handmaiden Offline
Registered User

Registered: 04/09/13
Posts: 15
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
I wonder why all theses Messianic communes end up dysfunctional? Shouldn't it be the other way around when we are away from the snares of pagan society?
_________________________
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Yahweh bless you, and keep you: Yahweh make His face shine upon you, and be gracious to you: Yahweh lift up His countenance upon you, and give you shalom. :-)

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#114811 - 04/15/13 07:59 AM Re: Amish style messianic community/farm? [Re: Yah's handmaiden]
Kiltsman Offline
Newly Registered User

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 5
Originally Posted By: Yah's handmaiden
I wonder why all theses Messianic communes end up dysfunctional? Shouldn't it be the other way around when we are away from the snares of pagan society?


There are several reasons any could end up dysfunctional.
1. They are not fully Torah Observant.
2. They refuse to connect to the one body of Messiah.
3. They lack a system to address grievances.
4. They do not believe or follow every word of Messiah.
5. A lack of commitment by members.
6. A poorly defined membership or doctrine.
7. A lack of democracy or authority.
8. Horrible food.

There are many more possible factors, but most communes are able to quickly learn and adapt when challenges arise and so they survive longer than most private families do (7 years). Perhaps some confuse being physically distant from pagan society as being the same as being spiritually distant from pagan society. In reality the location has no effect on this as some of the most heinous lifestyles are more manifest in rural environments. The master prayed not that we be taken out of the world physically but that we be kept from the omnipresent wickedness within it. And perhaps that false attribution becomes apparent too late with those betting that a more agrarian lifestyle is a more righteous one. Disillusionment will weaken the pillars of any social construct.


Edited by Kiltsman (04/15/13 03:26 PM)

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#114835 - 04/20/13 07:30 PM Re: YHWH-fearing, Torah-observant community [Re: DudleyFamily]
yeshuaslave Offline
Very Experienced User

Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 358
Loc: tulsa
Originally Posted By: DudleyFamily
Yeshua slave,

I didnt quite understand your points pertaining to communing together. What are your ideas or thoughts on people gathering and perhaps having leaders where you have to give "your" property over to them for the greater "good" of the community? (Your as in what Yahweh has let you have/use for the short time being here.)


see rather, in old and new testament (as Father opens eyes),
what is HIS WAY to live now, today,
as then you will understand (as He grants understanding) what
is the duty or life or gift or way to gather and live.

it is simple, not complicated. count nothing as your own.

not even your own life. count others as 'better' than yourself(in terms of make sure their needs are met before your
own family even, amongst believers)(then treat outsiders as Yhwh gives ability, wisdom, and understanding- it is simple, but not subject to a set of rules, rather to Yeshua Himself).

when believers live simply as Yeshua said to, seeking Yhwh first,
then there is very truthfully and remarkably no need unmet.
(yet there will still be persecution, execution/ martyrs for the faith- radiant literally with the life of Yhwh even as we/they die, like stephen and moses were RADIANT)

when believers live simply as Yeshua said to, they do not defend themselves. they will not lift a weapon of any kind
against another human being. they do not ever attempt divorce.
they refuse to live in sin, rather suffering great pain and loss to live righteously in Yhwh's presence.

so many 'things', yet simple, and evident in very few places
on earth, just as in the days of noah, sodom, and gomorrah.

be becoming as a little boy trusting his daddy, and perhaps he
will grant you gracious abundant abounding life and joy and righteousness and peace, as well as eternal rewards(not sought).

just get at all cost truth. seek Yhwh at the cost of everything. then He takes care of everything, exactly as it is written. man is literally no help in removing the veil (except
that the prayers of the faithful are always heard by ABBA, and
ABBA is the one and only one who can and may remove the veil
that is over everyone's mind/eyes)
for instance - all of the apostle's preaching the gospel are
no more effective than the prayers of stephen were, when he
prayed as the crucified messiah did "father, forgive them" from a pure heart and right spirit.

let all that has as it's source the flesh and world be removed.
let only that which is from ABBA remain. This is His will and this is His doing.
_________________________
"...suffer persecution so
that, perhaps, take part in
resurrection..." Paul's letter

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#114837 - 04/21/13 03:18 AM Re: YHWH-fearing, Torah-observant community [Re: yeshuaslave]
Yah's handmaiden Offline
Registered User

Registered: 04/09/13
Posts: 15
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Amein!
_________________________
--
Yahweh bless you, and keep you: Yahweh make His face shine upon you, and be gracious to you: Yahweh lift up His countenance upon you, and give you shalom. :-)

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#114838 - 04/21/13 12:51 PM Re: Amish style messianic community/farm? [Re: Yah's handmaiden]
leejosepho Offline
Joseph Lee
Veteran User***

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 3134
Loc: NW Louisiana usa
Originally Posted By: Yah's handmaiden
I wonder why all theses Messianic communes end up dysfunctional? Shouldn't it be the other way around when we are away from the snares of pagan society?

A snare is laid in one's own path, and I do not believe "pagan society" is our adversary. But for those of us coming out of it while still having to live within it, the challenges can be quite daunting.

Consider the Amish. They have had their own communities for centuries, but now they have outgrown them (or their own communities can no longer contain and sustain them) to a point where they must venture out for work in order to have what they need to purchase foods, medical attention, pay taxes and so on...and they are even being required to have telephones strategically located within their communities for making 911 calls whenever necessary. Nevertheless, they do still manage to retain their difference or "separation"...and how do they do that?

Some do it out of habit since they know nothing else, but I am sure some still do what they do because they believe it right and good for the best of all.

With people coming from varieties of backgrounds, I believe the challenges of "Messianic communities" are much greater. Where folks like the Amish have never had secular or commercial ambitions or any of the "luxuries" we tend to view as necessities, we know nothing of believing it a privilege to "eat by the sweat of one's brow" rather than stopping by the grocery store or deli on the way home from "work" to spend the evening in front of a football game.

For perspective here, and just as an illustration: Consider what any one of us might say if it were suggested we go join an Amish community. They would accept us, but I suspect most of us would say the requirement to abandon life as we would like to live it would just be too great.
_________________________
“Please begin at the basic truths and work forward instead of beginning at problematic passages and working backwards.” - varnishke

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#114839 - 04/21/13 02:04 PM Re: Amish style messianic community/farm? [Re: leejosepho]
yeshuaslave Offline
Very Experienced User

Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 358
Loc: tulsa
Originally Posted By: leejosepho
... ... ... They would accept us, but I suspect most of us would say the requirement to abandon life as we would like to live it would just be too great.


Originally Posted By: yeshuaslave
there is an obedient community in some places.
..


actually, they may not accept us. perhaps for or after several years. perhaps not. (and, as some who used to be in
such a community, some who grew up in one, have said - you might find that they care more about what their fellow members think than about what Yhwh thinks. HEY, Paul wrote that many already had stopped caring about Yhwh's Way and were seeking
after their own concerns instead, remember ? ) (i.e. - it is written that it is "A NARROW WAY" .. . start realizing how narrow it really is, Yhwh permitting).....

yes, most will not abandon the luxuries of life - the cost is
simply too great. thus they do not enter heaven. (it's not like(as if) Jesus said "well, if you don't really feel like it ... ..."
)

the obedient community in some places,
is simply those who have already [completely]abandoned their own life for His as He directs, as it is written.

He said it simply, so there is no misunderstanding.

and when those following Him left Him because what He said was
too hard to bear, He did not soften His words, no.
He did not 'follow after them' as if to bring them back, no.
He let them go their own way.
_________________________
"...suffer persecution so
that, perhaps, take part in
resurrection..." Paul's letter

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#114840 - 04/21/13 02:31 PM Re: Amish style messianic community/farm? [Re: yeshuaslave]
leejosepho Offline
Joseph Lee
Veteran User***

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 3134
Loc: NW Louisiana usa
Originally Posted By: yeshuaslave
actually, they may not accept us. perhaps for or after several years. perhaps not. (and, as some who used to be in
such a community, some who grew up in one, have said - you might find that they care more about what their fellow members think than about what Yhwh thinks.

That has nothing to do with what we are talking about, and I am growing weary of your judging or blaming other people for *any* of our troubles. Ego, fear, pride and/or ignorance trouble all of us, and those must be overcome in each of us if we are to live as Yah knows best and readily provides for the willing.
_________________________
“Please begin at the basic truths and work forward instead of beginning at problematic passages and working backwards.” - varnishke

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#114841 - 04/22/13 04:59 AM Re: Amish style messianic community/farm? [Re: leejosepho]
Yah's handmaiden Offline
Registered User

Registered: 04/09/13
Posts: 15
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
I just think of how a perfect being, Yahushua, suffered accusations, betrayals, 'entertaining' the nit-picking of the Pharisees and his doubting and thick-headed disciples, becoming a lowly servant, taking beatings and nails to his hands and feet and dying a painful, painful death for the wicked person guilty of greed, sexual immorality, slander, deceit, murder, pride, hypocrisy and all manner of reviling against him. Yet he did not revile back. I don't recall him complaining about these people either, only rebuking them directly by Word of Yahweh.

It takes me only to remember my own sins which I was wallowing in like a pig as an unbeliever, and even an early believer, and even recently and even now (as I learn from the Word and from brother EliYah's teachings - I've repented about 5 times just today). "Search me, O Yah, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting." Psalm 139:24 And this helps me to have empathy, compassion and love for the unbeliever and the sinning believer. "Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you." How about we PRAY for Obama to come to repentance before Yahweh? How about we pray for the people of America and the world to wake up? I know some people whom I was guilty of thinking "this person doesn't have the motivation, resilience or mental capacity to enter the narrow gate...so why bother?" That thought is wicked! "Is My hand so short that it cannot ransom? Or have I no power to deliver?" Isaiah 50:2

Any righteousness I have is an awe-some gift from Yahweh, it is not of myself. Yes, I CHOSE to serve Him, to learn more about Him, to love the Truth, but that is all I did, and this I did for my own profit! My righteousness is but filthy rags compared to Yahushua... The harvest is plentiful and workers are few and I (very recently, largely also thanks to yeshuaslave) learned not to mull on the works of the enemy but rather to keep my eyes on the Light, and if it exposes darkness, to rebuke that darkness with all meekness and gentleness, lest I too be tempted.

A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1

Yahweh bless!
_________________________
--
Yahweh bless you, and keep you: Yahweh make His face shine upon you, and be gracious to you: Yahweh lift up His countenance upon you, and give you shalom. :-)

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#114842 - 04/22/13 06:18 AM Re: Amish style messianic community/farm? [Re: Yah's handmaiden]
leejosepho Offline
Joseph Lee
Veteran User***

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 3134
Loc: NW Louisiana usa
Originally Posted By: Yah's handmaiden
Any righteousness I have is an awe-some gift from Yahweh, it is not of myself. Yes, I CHOSE to serve Him, to learn more about Him, to love the Truth, but that is all I did, and this I did for my own profit!

There is where various ones of us coming from different backgrounds and such can make certain things challenging among us as we come together. I grew up in religion while believing our particular denomination had begun with the "smart ones" or whatever who had wisely and "humbly"? accepted being excommunicated (for singing in harmony and wanting to evangelize), then looked down my nose a bit at true "sinners" who later came along. One man in particular still comes to mind. He was truly hurting and looking for a new way, but we only knew how to try to help him appear to be as righteous as we believed ourselves to be. Years later, however, and after coming to terms with the filthiness of my own rags, it was a blessing to see at least one pastor in that assembly for a while who knew how to meet people at their points of need.

Brokenness is brokenness, and we all need to experience and share it.


Edited by leejosepho (04/22/13 06:19 AM)
_________________________
“Please begin at the basic truths and work forward instead of beginning at problematic passages and working backwards.” - varnishke

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#114845 - 04/22/13 05:50 PM Re: Amish style messianic community/farm? [Re: The Wellers]
yeshuaslave Offline
Very Experienced User

Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 358
Loc: tulsa
.....
every one is broken(dead, really),and it is pertinent... (only believers, only the elect, can realize it and have life too -- multitudes
of people may or may not realize, and never benefit because
they refuse to follow Jesus / Yeshua).... (because He doesn't
allow bringing baggage/worldly goods/demonic doctrines/ etc)...
"FULLY" follow Yhwh, or not at all. He said it is all or nothing, many many times.
The 'strictness' is required here and elsewhere, for anyone
seeking HIS LIFE. But for anyone just seeking to 'be good'
or to 'enter/find heaven'
(as if they could)
no worries, No way. They / we / can have Yhwh's Way, or
any other way, but never both. Waiting 'till it's 'comfortable enough' to do, or 'the right time', is meaningless, just an excuse of the flesh. And often if not always 'fatal'.
LIFE is not obtainable from any One Else, Only ABBA, by
the price of preciousness, by the blood of Yeshua. giving up
and renouncing all else.

* book reference deleted by Moderator *


Edited by RichardLovesYHWH (04/27/13 10:00 PM)
Edit Reason: Removing Book Reference
_________________________
"...suffer persecution so
that, perhaps, take part in
resurrection..." Paul's letter

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#114846 - 04/22/13 06:23 PM Re: Amish style messianic community/farm? [Re: yeshuaslave]
leejosepho Offline
Joseph Lee
Veteran User***

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 3134
Loc: NW Louisiana usa
Originally Posted By: yeshuaslave
.....
every one is broken(dead, really)...

Sure, but I was speaking of brokenness in a different sense. I had given life my very best shot for just as long as I could stand doing so, then I dropped face-down in the mud and looked up only just enough to breathe while admitting complete defeat and asking, "What must I do to live? Does anyone know, and will anyone teach me?"

My ego had been smashed, my pride had been crucified, and I willingly admitted my complete ignorance in fear of anything still worse.

My struggle today? To not appear proud of my circumstantially- and pain-driven humility...and I work against that by readily crawling right back down there beside the next human being I find in need and crying out as I had.

My "nose dives" at altars in my past had been honest ones, but the answers I received this last time around were much different. Rather than yet another extrapolation of "I/You can do all things through...", I was told to let Him do for me what I could not...and He has and still does.


Edited by leejosepho (04/22/13 06:46 PM)
_________________________
“Please begin at the basic truths and work forward instead of beginning at problematic passages and working backwards.” - varnishke

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#115063 - 06/23/13 02:57 AM Re: Amish style messianic community/farm? [Re: Ryan Peters]
ToYahBeTheGlory Offline
Newly Registered User

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 1
Loc: In His Presence
Amen Ryan, amen. We can't very well expect others to know The Gospel if no one goes out to preach it.
Romans 10:13-for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”14- How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15- And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”


**and I love the quote you put at the end as it is very true**
"Preach all the time and speak when necessary".

Blessings ! :-)

Originally Posted By: Ryan Peters
I'm new on this forum but have spent most of my teen years and early adulthood ministering to youth, I realize this system is corrupt, as a student of history I'd say the most corrupt this world has seen (or very close) but I find it hard to place myself in a setting where Messiah didn't, personally I'd like to be a hermit or a monk or something, but Messiah walked the streets of corrupt cities, ministered in the midst of a corrupt (albeit religious) system, and am I to vacate to some remote location?
_________________________
Yah DID NOT call me to be famous. He called be to be faithful.

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