Is anyone interested in starting an Amish style messianic community/ farm? My husband and I are tired of chasing our tails in this family destroying system we work in. We would love to be able to celebrate Yah’s feast days, but getting off work is almost never permitted. We would love to have a piece of land where we can raise food, livestock, home school our future children…etc. We are not wealthy my husband is a driver for a beverage company and I teach at a “Christian” school. The idea of servants of Yah dwelling together is a great one!!! We would even be willing to work for our room and board, anything to get out of this system. I was in tears today over the fact that we can’t celebrate Sukkot due to work schedules. We don’t know what to do..other than pray that Yah will show us a way! Does anyone else here have the same dream as us?




















Ezekiel 11:17 “Therefore say, ‘Thus said the Master יהוה, “And I shall gather you from the peoples, and I shall assemble you from the lands where you have been scattered, and I shall give you the land of Yisra’ĕl.” ’

Edited - Content removed by author - Unable to delete postings - New account and removing/deleting old/outdated content.

We are with you all! It is not easy to make it on your own. We all need a community of believers where we can live together, or else, fail separately. An arm could never survive dissattached from the body...or a foot...or a toe. It doesn't matter what "member" of the body we are, we have to work together. And live in unity as one Body in Messiah. This system is broken, that is why Yahweh gave us Exodus, Numbers, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy. He laid out the Torah, so we as believers can live and work together, LOVING HIM, and then our NEIGHBOR. We have a detailed outline of the community we are envisioning. However, we do not have land or people to come to live on it. But, if we got the call tomorrow, to come and build, and live, we would get up and go. So, when the call is made, count us in as well.

Glenn, Jenn, Abagail and Samuel
www.messianicadventure.com

We are in South Mississippi also. The people in our congregation have gardens, can fruit and vegetables to share with each other and two of us have dairy goats for milk and cheese. We all dream of living on a plot of land that we could share. We have 4 acres now but are looking into a larger piece of property, 12 acres, so we would have room for others.

If you haven't made plans for sukkot, we invite you to join us. We are expecting about 20 from 4 different states, there is plenty of room and food for your family.



Tamera
www.mishkanraqkol.com

I would be very interested to here from anyone who has had success in living in a Torah observant community. With the pros and cons as you saw them.

I'm glad to have found this post and just wanted to mention there actually is some people in Ohio trying to start a Messianic community and they just so happen to be in an Amish community. Actually moved there because of certain benefits in the area. You can check out the website www.bethshalommessianic.webs.com I'm not trying to advertise just thought I'd share for those who might be interested.

.....

Hello Wellers:

My family has been building an outpost for 23 yrs now.
We are Sabbath observers and Yahweh name believers.
We earn our way by being beekeepers. We have wells
and gardens and some fruit trees. E-mail me back at
beeman157@juno.com if you want to know what we have
learned over the years. We also got out of the rat
race. I live in central Louisiana.

John the beeman

Messianic Jewish communities are needed in Israel. Within my lifetime I hope to see messianic jewish communities spread out all over the land of Israel. That is my dream...to live in Israel....in a Messianic Jewish community. G-d willing!!! I cant find a single messianic kibbutz/community or anything over there. I would love to be involved in starting one...If anyone has any resources, please let me know!! Thanks!

.....

Hello smg930 this was strange, I read your post yesterday and today I was checking something else out on google and stumbled across a messianic video and thought of your post...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sEBAldf4L0

I thought it was intersting.

Can anyone tell me why Jews seem to call him Yeshua instead of Yahushua it is certainly closer that J-sus

Shalom Rainbow,

I've also wondered about the correct name to use for Yeshua. There seems to be several names that can be used & I would suggest that we don't really now the correct spelling.

Each Messianic movement that I've looked at claim that their spelling is the only correct one. This is much the same as all the mainstream "christian religions" claiming that they are the only true "church".

Perhaps the natural Israelites are the best authority on the matter.

H144

I hear what you are saying. I love the Amish way of living.
I live in East Central Kentucky, and I am alone in my walk with Almighty Yahweh. I have no one I can really talk to except on the websites that believes in the Sacred Name of Almighty Yahweh and Yahshua the Messiah.

Here is an existing ALL-messianic community living in Israel about 10 miles from Yerusalem. I have also attached a few links to you-tube videos that tell of many messianic congregations in Jerusalem which interview some of the people in this first link. Hope this helps you. Shalom Paul R.

http://www.yad8.com/pdf/yadha8.pdf

Here are a few You-tube videos


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sEBAldf4L0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJKVAZpc7dU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcT-SE-OQTs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXlSH9SPGxA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBz7Js_TP-o&feature=channel

THANK YOU!!!!!!!! GREAT VIDEOS!!!!!! I HOPE TO MAKE ALIYAH SOON!!!

Shalom Wellers, the Boussums here, we are searching for the very same thing. In our search we found a community that seemed awesome at 1st but, as time moved on we noticed, they didn't wear tzittzit all the time, only on shabbat and high holy days. We had to stand at attention when the leader was seen or entered our presence, even the children had to stop playing and stand for him. My understanding is we are not to call any man our leader, rabbi, teacher, only One is our Teacher, Rabbi, and Leader and that is our Messiah YAHSHUA, and all the rest of us are equal.
To start a community or join one, you need to know what questions to ask, even the adversary knows the scriptures inside and out.
1st question, are they practicing what they preach? Like wearing the tzit tzit, not having any graven image (ceramic, stone, wood metal any carved shape even of snow or ice). I once knew a woman who actually worshiped her 5 vehicles, she even clamed they talked to her.
I even met a family that are well known for their Torah portions but, their children have dragon toys, T-shirts, all kinds of superhero toys and clothes. But the worst of the toys are avatar, and toy weapons of all kinds, I was sooo surprised.
Is there something wrong with me, or did I read and remember, the snowman, the Hanukkah bush, Hanukkah wreath, the lights some people put on their trees at that time of year, and claim 'Its only to light the drive way.' It's all pagan.
I thought it would be simple. Rite... We all need to put YHVH 1st, have patience, He has the plan for us all. We need to slow down. I almost made some very big mistakes chasing my own heart.
I can't wait to see my neighbor to love my neighbor as myself... I love my neighbor now and I haven't even met.
I can't wait to live free, to worship YHVH at the feasts, to learn to sing the proper songs and dance around the camp fire!!!
Shalom, may YHVH bless you with a amish style Messianic Community Farm! One that keeps the 7th day sabbath, no pagan under or overtones.
Tamara

I'm new on this forum but have spent most of my teen years and early adulthood ministering to youth, I realize this system is corrupt, as a student of history I'd say the most corrupt this world has seen (or very close) but I find it hard to place myself in a setting where Messiah didn't, personally I'd like to be a hermit or a monk or something, but Messiah walked the streets of corrupt cities, ministered in the midst of a corrupt (albeit religious) system, and am I to vacate to some remote location?

Hello, I just thought that I would add my thoughts about this idea of living together in a commune style community of like minded believers.

I think that there are two kinds of this type of community, the one that believes the world is completely evil and who simply want to live apart from it, and those who believe the world is evil, want to live healthy, righteous lives, being able to raise up their children in an environment sheltered from pagan worldly influences, where they can fellowship together, BUT, who also believe in going out into the world in one way or another, to reach out to this dying world, to evangalize, teach, etc..

I've heard of a few different groups that live this way, including The Twelve Tribes, and I guess my question would then be, after reading the descriptions of what the different posters here envision as the place they'd want to live, is how perfect does this place have to be?

I mean, if I find a group of loving basically torah observant people, but they do this one thing differently than I believe, should I then continue to live, all alone in the paganized satan led world? Is that the better option? Should I wait until the PERFECT community arises? Can there be such a thing? Messianic groups can't seem to agree about anything, even the names of the Father and the Son? I believe their names to be Yahweh and Yahushua. So shall I avoid a group that does not pronounce the oo sound of the Messiah's name? Another believer came in here speaking of a community located in South America, and everything he said sounded so perfect, but I noticed that he mentioned observing the 7th day Sabbath according to the new moon. This is not scriptural. So that group is out, right?

I am just frustrated, and feel all alone in the world and have no Messianic community anywhere near where I live. I just bought a house and live there all by myself, but I'd be willing to leave the house behind, and the bonds of slavery that owning a home, brings with it, seeing as I'll have mortgage payments to make for years to come, then taxes and insurance after that, IF I could find somewhere else to live where I could enjoy fellowship and a safe environment to live, and raise children if I choose to marry and start a family?

So how strict should a person be when the way things seem to be today, their only other choice is to remain living alone in a godless, lawless, pagan loving world lorded over by HaShatan himself?

.....

thats a pretty interesting idea.. i think given the direction this world is headed people will have to choose between the system and or coming out of the system. I spend most of my time thinking of how to go completely off grid a working farm where everyone could contribute is a good idea.. its gonna come down to coming out of this system inevitably anyways....

Hi,

You know as Yasharal (Israel) returns to the "non-grid" agrarian lifestyle, as ordained originally by our Creator, we will better understand the simplicity and awesomeness of his design. I believe that this a part of the "being in the world, but not of it"......

Shamayon

......

maybe you need to get away from Tulsa perhaps ...

.....

There IS such a community, in fact, they are popping up everywhere in the US.
I know of one in Missouri, if you are interested in relocating. Please private message me or email me at jonesfullhouse@ymail.com for more information.
This is a great opportunity and we are currently looking for messianic believers who are skilled in building, sewing, livestock, mechanics, any kind of shop work or any skills that will be helpful and fruitful in our community.
Please, if you all are serious about getting back to caring for the earth as YHVH has commanded us, please contact me asap. We need you! We need believers who are eager to help and love one another in a "first century" assembly kind of way.

Shabbat Shalom!

Leah

See the Prairie Creek Settlement website:
http://www.prairiecreeksettlement.com

.....

I've been there and am moving there soon. We believe unity can only be achieved if we love Yeshua and love one another as He loved us.
The only way this is possible is if Yeshua leads us, He is the Head, we are all just brothers and sisters and we are all learning little by little what it means to live out this life of unity.

Thank you for asking and Shalom!

Leah Jones

I live in the mountain in Hawaii. I just pitch a tent and knock down trees for a garden I have 2 others here and we want to start a messianic communal living to study torah and observe feast days. Email me on Facebook
Aaron Scott bullock

I have thought the same way as well, would be nice to have bretheren near for fellowship and help.

Shalom in Yahshua,

I just joined this site in the hopes of being led by YHVH through the guidance of the Ruach Hachadesh (Holy Spirit) to a Community or Kibbutz of like minded followers of Yahshua in the US (or elsewhere in the world if that is the Father's will).

I have seen some mention in the post's here about the Prairie Creek settlement in Missouri... I also was in the process of joining the group there & had actually travelled across country 4 times to spent time there (a total of about 3 months total time spent there).

It truly saddens my heart to say that there was some very SERIOUS Sin in the camp there & YHVH directed my wife & I back to California after just 1 day (we never even unloaded our possessions).

I understand that we all have access to forgiveness through the Blood of our Savior (and there may have well been a repentance there, but I don't know if there was any sought).

All I know is what YHVH meant for his Good, was thourghly disrupted at the the direct influence of our Arch Enemy (Hasatan).

I truly believed with all my Heart that this was the direction the Father was leading my wife & I to go in... however, because of the intense transgretion happening (and on going), I had NO peace to stay.

I speak the Truth in Messiah & sincerely am saddened deeply to share this information in this way... but I do feel obligated to share this information with anyone that is seriously thinking about getting involved in Prarie Creek.

Shalom Alechiem

We are moving to Ecuador soon and desire to start a Yahweh serving community and assembly in the Name of Yahushua, Yahweh willing. I am not an elder or a pastor but do feel led to evangelize the people there. As for the details of how that works out, we will leave them to Yahweh. If it is just a few local families who honor the Name and Keep the Shabbats, that will be a blessing.

Get a passport and pray about joining us. Our plan, Yahweh willing is to leave the first week of the roman 9th month or earlier if the U.S. federal reserve interest rate hits one percent. It is currently at zero point one five. We are able to leave now but are gathering more resources, Yahweh willing. Please pray for us and seek His will for your own family. Get a passport in case He says "GO!".

Hi Nick,

May I ask why you are choosing Ecuador?

Shamayon

Hi Nick,

good to hear "reinforcement" is coming to Ecuador, to work in the "hard field". Some 1 1/2 years ago we (my wife and two sons 19/15) settled here, in the southern Andes, about 15miles southern Vilcabamba. We bought a 47ha Finca, beautiful land with some potential for almost all type of farming.
Before we lived for almost 10 years in Namibia, traveled for about 3 years the half mediteranian sea and almost allover South America. Originally we're from southern Germany.
Here in Ecuador I think we found the best conditions to build up a self containing community.
If you're interested in having more contact, please email to us!

Be blessed in YAHWEH and YESHUA his Son!

Ralph

Hello i come from the www.twelvetribes.org but i only lived there 1 yr at 3 different communities. Today i live amongst the amish and mennonites in central pa north of harrisburg. There are basically farms and state gamelands here not any tourist stuff which i love. I have 6 acres and i have developed it by myself for 2 yrs. here is my site http://directory.ic.org/22661/Central_Pa_Mountain_farm___for_Hip_open_minded_people i say hip and open minded because i do not have indoor plumbing yet. I am open to sharing it with another believer in yahshua. Read my first post to know some more about me and my TT experience. http://www.eliyah.com/Forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/114005.html#Post114005

PS: I would be open to selling it or trading up with more people but i can't leave this beautiful area as i have traveled the appalachians and found this to be the cleanest lands and the water is so pure. I also can't move my 90 yr old mom too far from my 6 siblings.

opps this got posted in the wrong thread

OIC someone changed the thread name

Shalom! Sorry to read about your terrible experience at Prairie Creek. Their location is only a 3-4 hours' drive for me. I would like to know whether you found an alternative. Tony

Shalom Nick,

Are you in South America? What's going on?

Tony
Missouri

here's a couple posted references to this abomination.

(In their own words)(i.e. it's their own posts or pages on the public internet sites they advertise on or whatever.)

Posts - Growfood.org
www.growfood.org/posts/all - Cached - Similar
VeteranMntnFarm / centralpafarm wrote on on 12 Dec 2012. The barn ...... I am
legally female, but presenting as male. ... Pennelope88@aol.com for full Resume
--------------------------------
VeteranMntnFarm / centralpafarm's Posts | Growfood.org
www.growfood.org/posts/20524 - Cached
I am legally female, but presenting as male. ..... Address: CentralPaFarm AT aol
DOT com Web Address: http://directory.ic.org/22661/Central_Pa_Mountain_farm ...
----------------------------------

we need to all, in yeshua, be daily testing each other and all things,
each other, with a positive expectation and hope, in the messiah, for truth and life and protection from becoming tricked in any way - YES!
and
all things,
because all things in the world are wicked, except for
who and what is sanctified, set apart, by abba in yeshua the messiah who came in the flesh for our sakes in him! YES!
...
noting, realizing, that all are confined under sin,
and that all may turn to abba in yeshua to receive life, ABBA WILLING,
if they turn to him,
i acknowledge that any person may be given a chance
to repent, to turn to abba and do what is right,
even to be immersed in yeshua for newness of life,
as
it looks like and as would be expected this one was
given a chance to and was encouraged to repent in
many times and ways,
especially at the community(ies) they visited but didn't stay at.
...
At first, as I have contacted many others in the past,
I actually contacted that thing without knowing about it
(some people may think this is a hard judgmental way to say it, but they should first know that 'it' would willingly abuse a person if it gets them in their power to, - any age person - so i believe others who care should be warned asap...(( until it actually breaks a law or actually hurts or abuses someone, the authorities (probably)can do nothing legally. ))

and,from posts and links and such on other forums/sites/contact places, A LOT of people from all over the country/world have UNWITTINGLY (hopefully for their sake) also contacted it seeking more info or to visit/stay/whatever.

IT IS WRITTEN, have nothing to do with the deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. (this is putting it mildly!)

(and still with the hope, realized or not, for the saving of their soul;
as well as (more so?) protecting our young believers and older persons)

Thank you yeshuaslave for the info!
Sometimes I have a bad taste - as it happened in this case - not knowing why
Now I know why I had it. [/quote]

Greetings in the name of Yahshua - I THOUGHT I had registered here before but if I did, I cannot find my original log in info - so, HELLO!

Does (or has) anyone here live(d) on a Yah-fearing community?
The post down below kind of went on a tangent so I thought I'd start another thread.

I'd be interested in experiences, advice, ect.

I have joined with a group of other Saints and we are starting a community in the Ozarks. We HAVE started it and things are difficult but going fine. I would be interested in anything experienced folks here have to contribute to the discussion - we always have more to learn and things we don't know we don't know

Thanks, and Yah Bless.
PJF

Communes seem to go sour fast. It seems better for people to live closely and have common goals. Everybody could barter their skills...mechanic, carpenter, craftsman, sewer, gardener, etc. One family could be great at gardening and another great at raising animals. Another with bees and another with sewing. Everyone would be close enough to barter and fellowship.

Just my ideas.

ps- We want to homestead a little of everything. We have 10 chickens and are gathering containers for gardening/storage.

wow, so many points that are pertinent....
..
yhwh-fearing, as yhwh means it. as a little 3 year old boy trusts his daddy all the time, and always does what he says to do. (i know most kids do not do what their parents tell them to do. mine did until they grew up and left(and may still)).
I always obeyed my parents. always. all my life, until they died, whatever they asked me to do, or told me to do, i did, even when i was 30 years old(a looong time ago)).
when a baby from conception thru birth thru the first years
is taught by example and experience with Yahweh living with the family in the home and everywhere,
then the baby knows and does what is right, with or without a written torah to go by(even before they can read , and even if they cannot read))
....
so, if , like a 3 year old boy trusting his daddy, you/we/he/she/ they
can trust all to daddy,
then you/we/he/she/they can relent/submit/obey/willingly and joyfully
laying down LIFE for others, instead of standing up for mistaken and so-called 'rights'........
....
with no greed, no idols, no idolatry, no selfishness.....
....
LIVING clean and alive and true and pure and in yahweh's presence every day....
....
with or without 'book knowledge', nothing cutting off fellowship , personal and intimate like adam and eve had, so too believers with yahweh. (look up the more detailed description online, yahweh willing... it is intensely personal).

....
yahweh provides / indeed has provided everything pertaining to life. he doesn't need or seek any skills of the flesh or property there-of (WHAT DOESn'T HE OWN ALREADY ????)
....
he provides all.
....
trust him faithfullly. do all he tells you personally(ALWAYS IN LINE WITH ALL OF HIS WORD, period.) HE IS ALIVE!!!! YES!! NOW , TODAY, YAHWEH IS ALIVE AND SPEAKING FLUENTLY WITH HIS CHILDREN.
....
simple, and very rare.(because people are corrupt, and selfish)
....
moses learned to be content in the hills with the flocks as a sheep herder, DESPISED by the ROYALTY he had been raised among.
....
he chose to SUFFER with yahweh's people instead of enjoying the luxuries of the world he could ? have had.(as a sinner)
....
....
....
....
....
....
....
2 or more 3 year olds playing / living together, trained simply by example is all that is true and right,
have no thought nor trouble nor strife sharing everything immediately, no hesitation, without even thinking of not sharing.
THAT is the attitude of the messiah .... ....
(spontaneous in those born again, out of sheer joy for the cost of his life and blood shed in their place. not thought our nor religious(yahweh hates religion))....
....
....
grace, mercy, truth, joy, and abounding generous LIFE to all those who live in yahshua the messiah, serving abba in total trust and faithfulness. no matter what their circumstances are today.
....
....

Yeshua slave,

I didnt quite understand your points pertaining to communing together. What are your ideas or thoughts on people gathering and perhaps having leaders where you have to give "your" property over to them for the greater "good" of the community? (Your as in what Yahweh has let you have/use for the short time being here.)

the exact same as in acts, abba willing. in yahshua totally.
in
different places and times, there will be some things not similar,
but the believers living in yahshua, immersed in him,
will naturally and spontaneously share what is needed, first with
each other, then with others, as abba leads and guides and permits them.
each will work as abba directs, also simply, with their hands(as it is written), depending on no one(unless abba directs like when he used egypt to feed his people instead of manna and instead of or because there's no land to work or not other work to earn what is needed.-- i.e. all in work and any other, all dependent on abba, working with all heart and soul and strength(diligently , as unto yahweh himself)
well,
that's a bit more complicated than i wanted to get already....
like
corrie ten boom in and after the nazi prisons showed and said - hold everything yahweh gives you in an open hand, loosely , and let it go where he wants, whether to use today, or to another.
don't let the world get its claws in you. it is very hard to live already as it is.
....
...
just as in acts , the people did not require and were not required to sell their houses or to give all the proceeds to the apostles. they sold what they wanted to, and gave freely what they wanted to.
ananias and saphira were not killed for not giving all, but for lying about it. - NEVER LIE TO EACH OTHER. YAHWEH WILL NOT OVERLOOK IT.
..
..
keith green, watchman nee, and very few others , have ever tried let alone succeeded to live as yahweh says to.
remember, noah, lot, and their families too.
it won't be easy this year, in this world,
but
be of good cheer, Yahshua has overcome this world.

I have been looking to live in a place like this! There is no other place i would want to live. I am a child that was raied Roman catholic, then nondenominational for a short time. I have seen the truth about the Torah/Law/Sabbath etc. My family has not. in about three yrs i will be an adult so I can try and live in a place like this. I go to public school and have seen how distrbing it can be and want to homeschool my children. I have tried to teach and show my family scriptures but they take me as a joke and i feel so alone. I know being a Messianic Jew is hard if you have pressures of a corrupt world, school sytem, etc. I want so much to be in a community where everyone agrees on how to live life. I realize i am still yong( 10th grade) but i have found this way of living and fallen in lov with it and need support from fellow beleivers. Again my goal is to life and raise a family in a torah observant messianic community

there is an obedient community in some places.
..

"Twelve Tribes" might have already been mentioned here in this thread...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tribes_communities

I suspect they are not fully aware of their sectarian bent, but they began during my own youth (early '70s) and I have suggested them to others during more recent days.

http://www.twelvetribes.com/

I wish I could see one, let alone find it.
Sorry, that is what I doubt!!!

To TOP it up: every time I ask - everyone keeps quiet or runs hiding - is my experience.

Do they smell that I know its a trap? Or is it ONLY ME who seems wrong???

I wonder why all theses Messianic communes end up dysfunctional? Shouldn't it be the other way around when we are away from the snares of pagan society?

There are several reasons any could end up dysfunctional.
1. They are not fully Torah Observant.
2. They refuse to connect to the one body of Messiah.
3. They lack a system to address grievances.
4. They do not believe or follow every word of Messiah.
5. A lack of commitment by members.
6. A poorly defined membership or doctrine.
7. A lack of democracy or authority.
8. Horrible food.

There are many more possible factors, but most communes are able to quickly learn and adapt when challenges arise and so they survive longer than most private families do (7 years). Perhaps some confuse being physically distant from pagan society as being the same as being spiritually distant from pagan society. In reality the location has no effect on this as some of the most heinous lifestyles are more manifest in rural environments. The master prayed not that we be taken out of the world physically but that we be kept from the omnipresent wickedness within it. And perhaps that false attribution becomes apparent too late with those betting that a more agrarian lifestyle is a more righteous one. Disillusionment will weaken the pillars of any social construct.

well, the fastest growing bodies of believers is in the worst
possible place on earth, for the most people - china.
in the usa, messianic and hebrew roots chat rooms, forums, and communities, when they are 'public' , get over-run with other motives or people with other motives, as they are the direct object of the enemy of Christ to dis-credit and/or to prevent growth and/or to prevent LIFE (as if that could be).

all the chat rooms and forums, ones that start out with good motives or direction, and those that don't, are all too quickly assimilated by the much much much higher population of
unbelievers, both legalistic, and grace.

remember that the believers in the old testament were often led
astray,
and the believers in the new testament had 'many anti-christs' already before 100 a.d. !!

so much more so now, as the world is immersed in wickednesses and evil far far worse than has ever been seen before, and
getting exponentially(humanly speaking) worse daily (until Jesus returns).....

as it is written, as the Messiah Who Shed His Own Blood to set us free from sin said "pray constantly, pray for strength to endure to the end, and pray for wisdom to endure to the end"...

if the Father does not grant it, it will not be.

see rather, in old and new testament (as Father opens eyes),
what is HIS WAY to live now, today,
as then you will understand (as He grants understanding) what
is the duty or life or gift or way to gather and live.

it is simple, not complicated. count nothing as your own.

not even your own life. count others as 'better' than yourself(in terms of make sure their needs are met before your
own family even, amongst believers)(then treat outsiders as Yhwh gives ability, wisdom, and understanding- it is simple, but not subject to a set of rules, rather to Yeshua Himself).

when believers live simply as Yeshua said to, seeking Yhwh first,
then there is very truthfully and remarkably no need unmet.
(yet there will still be persecution, execution/ martyrs for the faith- radiant literally with the life of Yhwh even as we/they die, like stephen and moses were RADIANT)

when believers live simply as Yeshua said to, they do not defend themselves. they will not lift a weapon of any kind
against another human being. they do not ever attempt divorce.
they refuse to live in sin, rather suffering great pain and loss to live righteously in Yhwh's presence.

so many 'things', yet simple, and evident in very few places
on earth, just as in the days of noah, sodom, and gomorrah.

be becoming as a little boy trusting his daddy, and perhaps he
will grant you gracious abundant abounding life and joy and righteousness and peace, as well as eternal rewards(not sought).

just get at all cost truth. seek Yhwh at the cost of everything. then He takes care of everything, exactly as it is written. man is literally no help in removing the veil (except
that the prayers of the faithful are always heard by ABBA, and
ABBA is the one and only one who can and may remove the veil
that is over everyone's mind/eyes)
for instance - all of the apostle's preaching the gospel are
no more effective than the prayers of stephen were, when he
prayed as the crucified messiah did "father, forgive them" from a pure heart and right spirit.

let all that has as it's source the flesh and world be removed.
let only that which is from ABBA remain. This is His will and this is His doing.

Amein!

A snare is laid in one's own path, and I do not believe "pagan society" is our adversary. But for those of us coming out of it while still having to live within it, the challenges can be quite daunting.

Consider the Amish. They have had their own communities for centuries, but now they have outgrown them (or their own communities can no longer contain and sustain them) to a point where they must venture out for work in order to have what they need to purchase foods, medical attention, pay taxes and so on...and they are even being required to have telephones strategically located within their communities for making 911 calls whenever necessary. Nevertheless, they do still manage to retain their difference or "separation"...and how do they do that?

Some do it out of habit since they know nothing else, but I am sure some still do what they do because they believe it right and good for the best of all.

With people coming from varieties of backgrounds, I believe the challenges of "Messianic communities" are much greater. Where folks like the Amish have never had secular or commercial ambitions or any of the "luxuries" we tend to view as necessities, we know nothing of believing it a privilege to "eat by the sweat of one's brow" rather than stopping by the grocery store or deli on the way home from "work" to spend the evening in front of a football game.

For perspective here, and just as an illustration: Consider what any one of us might say if it were suggested we go join an Amish community. They would accept us, but I suspect most of us would say the requirement to abandon life as we would like to live it would just be too great.

actually, they may not accept us. perhaps for or after several years. perhaps not. (and, as some who used to be in
such a community, some who grew up in one, have said - you might find that they care more about what their fellow members think than about what Yhwh thinks. HEY, Paul wrote that many already had stopped caring about Yhwh's Way and were seeking
after their own concerns instead, remember ? ) (i.e. - it is written that it is "A NARROW WAY" .. . start realizing how narrow it really is, Yhwh permitting).....

yes, most will not abandon the luxuries of life - the cost is
simply too great. thus they do not enter heaven. (it's not like(as if) Jesus said "well, if you don't really feel like it ... ..."
)

the obedient community in some places,
is simply those who have already [completely]abandoned their own life for His as He directs, as it is written.

He said it simply, so there is no misunderstanding.

and when those following Him left Him because what He said was
too hard to bear, He did not soften His words, no.
He did not 'follow after them' as if to bring them back, no.
He let them go their own way.

That has nothing to do with what we are talking about, and I am growing weary of your judging or blaming other people for *any* of our troubles. Ego, fear, pride and/or ignorance trouble all of us, and those must be overcome in each of us if we are to live as Yah knows best and readily provides for the willing.

I just think of how a perfect being, Yahushua, suffered accusations, betrayals, 'entertaining' the nit-picking of the Pharisees and his doubting and thick-headed disciples, becoming a lowly servant, taking beatings and nails to his hands and feet and dying a painful, painful death for the wicked person guilty of greed, sexual immorality, slander, deceit, murder, pride, hypocrisy and all manner of reviling against him. Yet he did not revile back. I don't recall him complaining about these people either, only rebuking them directly by Word of Yahweh.

It takes me only to remember my own sins which I was wallowing in like a pig as an unbeliever, and even an early believer, and even recently and even now (as I learn from the Word and from brother EliYah's teachings - I've repented about 5 times just today). "Search me, O Yah, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting." Psalm 139:24 And this helps me to have empathy, compassion and love for the unbeliever and the sinning believer. "Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you." How about we PRAY for Obama to come to repentance before Yahweh? How about we pray for the people of America and the world to wake up? I know some people whom I was guilty of thinking "this person doesn't have the motivation, resilience or mental capacity to enter the narrow gate...so why bother?" That thought is wicked! "Is My hand so short that it cannot ransom? Or have I no power to deliver?" Isaiah 50:2

Any righteousness I have is an awe-some gift from Yahweh, it is not of myself. Yes, I CHOSE to serve Him, to learn more about Him, to love the Truth, but that is all I did, and this I did for my own profit! My righteousness is but filthy rags compared to Yahushua... The harvest is plentiful and workers are few and I (very recently, largely also thanks to yeshuaslave) learned not to mull on the works of the enemy but rather to keep my eyes on the Light, and if it exposes darkness, to rebuke that darkness with all meekness and gentleness, lest I too be tempted.

A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1

Yahweh bless!

There is where various ones of us coming from different backgrounds and such can make certain things challenging among us as we come together. I grew up in religion while believing our particular denomination had begun with the "smart ones" or whatever who had wisely and "humbly"? accepted being excommunicated (for singing in harmony and wanting to evangelize), then looked down my nose a bit at true "sinners" who later came along. One man in particular still comes to mind. He was truly hurting and looking for a new way, but we only knew how to try to help him appear to be as righteous as we believed ourselves to be. Years later, however, and after coming to terms with the filthiness of my own rags, it was a blessing to see at least one pastor in that assembly for a while who knew how to meet people at their points of need.

Brokenness is brokenness, and we all need to experience and share it.

.....
every one is broken(dead, really),and it is pertinent... (only believers, only the elect, can realize it and have life too -- multitudes
of people may or may not realize, and never benefit because
they refuse to follow Jesus / Yeshua).... (because He doesn't
allow bringing baggage/worldly goods/demonic doctrines/ etc)...
"FULLY" follow Yhwh, or not at all. He said it is all or nothing, many many times.
The 'strictness' is required here and elsewhere, for anyone
seeking HIS LIFE. But for anyone just seeking to 'be good'
or to 'enter/find heaven'
(as if they could)
no worries, No way. They / we / can have Yhwh's Way, or
any other way, but never both. Waiting 'till it's 'comfortable enough' to do, or 'the right time', is meaningless, just an excuse of the flesh. And often if not always 'fatal'.
LIFE is not obtainable from any One Else, Only ABBA, by
the price of preciousness, by the blood of Yeshua. giving up
and renouncing all else.

* book reference deleted by Moderator *

Sure, but I was speaking of brokenness in a different sense. I had given life my very best shot for just as long as I could stand doing so, then I dropped face-down in the mud and looked up only just enough to breathe while admitting complete defeat and asking, "What must I do to live? Does anyone know, and will anyone teach me?"

My ego had been smashed, my pride had been crucified, and I willingly admitted my complete ignorance in fear of anything still worse.

My struggle today? To not appear proud of my circumstantially- and pain-driven humility...and I work against that by readily crawling right back down there beside the next human being I find in need and crying out as I had.

My "nose dives" at altars in my past had been honest ones, but the answers I received this last time around were much different. Rather than yet another extrapolation of "I/You can do all things through...", I was told to let Him do for me what I could not...and He has and still does.