Note: The beliefs expressed on these pages are not necessarily my own. EliYah


UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
  Forums at EliYah's Home Page
  EliYah's Home Page Discussion Forum
  The 45 days of the Great Tribulation

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search


Old Forum | New Forum
The Main Site (excluding Scripture & Forums)
Search:

Disclaimer


Search/Read Scriptures | Enter Chat Room | Study Tools
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   The 45 days of the Great Tribulation
Jose Cadena

Posts: 100
Registered: Aug 98

posted 09-09-1998 10:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jose Cadena   Click Here to Email Jose Cadena     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
The Great tribulation will last 45 days


Dear Readers,

In these last days I really have been afraid, because the reading some posting on this forum and other pages. I thought that was only me, but others have expressed the same feeling, leaving this forum definitively. Some false teachers are doing their jobs, affecting those who are weak and new believers. Please, brothers and sister help them.

Certainly there are many confusion about the Great Tribulation, which I want to write about hook on the text and context of Bible. I want to be very short on this theme. Let's have in mind that SON of Satan (son of perdition, man of sin), declared in Génesis 3:15, it is till to come:

quote:
2Tesal
3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; SO THAT HE AS GOD SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, SHEWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD.

Only when the Son of Perdition sits in the temple of GOD (in Jerusalem), not before, is called the Abomination that Desolates.

quote:
27: And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. Then, due to the overspreading of abominations shall come one who desolates,

This is a week of 1.260 days + 1.260 days (or 2.520 days). At the morning of the day 1.261 there is no more sacrifice.

12345678901234....1.258 1.259 1.260::1.261 1.262 1.263--- 2.518 2.519 2.520

Note the one who desolates will not come while sacrifices are running, but after.

quote:

12: 11: And from the time that the daily sacrifice ceases, till the abomination that desolates, there shall be 1.290 days

As the sacrifice ceases in the midst of the week, then the Abomination that Desolates will appear 30 days after ending the week.

12345678901234....1.258 1.259 1.260: First half
1.2611.262 1.263--- 2.518 2.519 2.520: Second half
2.521 2.522...2.550 The Abomination that Desolates

quote:

12:12: Blessed is he that waits, and comes to 1.335 days.

This is 45 days after the Abomination that Desolates sits on the temple of GOD:

2.521 2.522...2.550 The Abomination that Desolates 2.551..2.595

Both are being counted from the moment that the sacrifices cease. Those who could come to day 1.336 are blessed. They don't have to be afraid any more, because the danger is gone. So, from the beginning of the week, till the end of the abomination in the temple there are 2.595 days. What happens then?

quote:

8:13: Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
8:14: And he said unto me, Unto 2.300; THEN THE SANCTUARY SHOULD BE CLEANSED
26: And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
.

"It true" means 2.300 evening and morning, no years or any other units. Note that the first saint include both the sacrifice AND the transgression of desolation. Both sum up 2.300 days after the sacrifices started. After that the sanctuary is cleansed.

The period known as the Great Tribulation started as the son of perdition sit on the temple (Mattew 24):

quote:
15: WHEN ye THEREFORE shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (who readeth, let him understand
16: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21: FOR THEN SHALL BE GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


"Except those days should be shortened" are the 45 days mentioned (1.335 - 1.290). The Great tribulation is the climax of a period of tribulations.

When starts the last week of Daniel?.

We know that the sacrifices starts 2.300 days before the sanctuary is cleansed (since the son of perdition is kicked out), which occurs 2595 after started the week. Then during 295 days after starting the week there are not sacrifices because still the temple is being building:

The Building of the temple Will start the last week of Daniel, and this is here.

In the beginning of this year I found a page in Internet that speak of the effort done by many Rabin to build the temple. If you want to read the copy, let me know, my email is sanfernando@cantv.net, or get it through

With Love in the name of Jesus Christ
José Cadena

[This message has been edited by Jose Cadena (edited 01-17-99).]

IP: Logged

Elishyah

Posts: 169
Registered:

posted 09-10-1998 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Elishyah   Click Here to Email Elishyah     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom Brother Jose,

--- "Only when the son of perdition sits in the temple of GOD (in Jerusalem), then and not before, is called the abomination that desolates(Daniel). 9:27: And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. Then, due to the overspreading of abominations shall come one who desolates, This is a week of 1.260 days + 1.260 days (or 2.520 days). At the morning of the day 1.261 there is no more sacrifice."

It seems you are confusing the 70 weeks of Daniel with the tribulation.
Let's look at the whole scripture for a moment:

Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. (26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he
shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Verse 25 gives us a time frame:
"from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:
Which is 69 weeks. As you know, a prophetic week is equal to 7 years. So this is 483 years. Now if we know when the command to rebuild the city was given then we know when the Most Holy will be anointed.
Ezra 7 says that the command to rebuild the city went forth in the seventh year of the reign of King Artaxerses. Artaxerses' reign began in 464 BC. The seventh year of his reign would have been 458 BC. Now we know when the command went forth. 483 years after this is about 26AD.

Anoint the Most Holy: We know that Yahshua is the Most Holy and this is His anointing. About 3 1/2 years after this time the Messiah would be cut off, but not for himself. Isaiah said that Yahshua would be cut off but not for Himself also.
Isaiah 53:7 "He was oppressed, and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth: He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so He openeth not his mouth. (8) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare His generation? for He was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken."
So, now we see who that was that was cut off.
Verse 27:
He shall confirm a convenant with many for 1 week.
We must keep in mind what the topic of this conversation is - Daniel's people and his city (verse 24). We know there was a covenant made with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants - Israel. This is the covenant that was confirmed. Notice it did not say he made a covenant but that he confirmed a covenant, meaning this covenant already existed. This was what Yahshua did as Paul explains to the Romans:
Romans 15:8 "Now I say that Yahshua the Messiah was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:"

2 things happen in the midst of the week:
1) The Messiah is cut off.
2) The Messiah will cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease.

Lets look at these 2 event elsewhere.

Matthew 27:50 "Yahshua, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. (51) And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;"
Mark 15:37 "And Yahshua cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost. (38) And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom."
Luke 23:45 "And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. (46) And when Yahshua had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

When the veil of the temple was torn in two, there was no more sacrifice for sins. I other words, the Levitical priesthood was over. As Paul explained to his brethren:
Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

This is when He caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease.

7:26 "For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners,and made higher than the heavens; (27) Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and
then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
(28) For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore."
He became our High Priest and He did not need to make sacrifices and oblations daily - but gave Himself as the better sacrifice.

Most history books say that The Messiah was killed about 30AD which compliments scripture. The end of the 69 weeks only gets us to the anointing of The Messiah. His ministry was about 3 1/2 years - half a week - then He was cut off. He will complete His week but thats another story.

The part that I think is causing the confusion is
"and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
This is assumed to be the antichrist but this is Yahshua. He sent the Romans to destroy Jerusalem.
Yahshua has always used other nations to punish Israel; like the Assyrians.
Isaiah 10:3 "And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory? (4) Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still. (5) O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation. (6) I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets."
Just like He used the Romans.
Luke 19:42 "Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. (43) For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and
compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, (44) And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
"

This happened in 70AD. The Romans took the survivors a slaves.
These 70 weeks that are in Daniel are specific to Israel - even the remaining half of a week.

Jose, I hope this will clear up some of the confusion.

Peace and Love in Our Messiah and King,
Elishyah

IP: Logged

Jose Cadena

Posts: 100
Registered: Aug 98

posted 09-10-1998 11:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jose Cadena   Click Here to Email Jose Cadena     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Dear Brother Elishyah, peace to you


I have being very aware of the consideration that you made, thank you, because in this difficult business we need the help of our brothers. In this posting I didn't want to write about the 70 weeks because it is a very long topic. I am not going to argue you, it isn't your idea or mine. In a new post I am going to write about "the 70 weeks determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city". For some time I have revised this very carefully. But, before going on it, I need your help, (please be very careful, use pen and calculator), about the following points:

Ezekiel tell us that he counted the years that passed from he (and others) were deported. He mentions a double counting:

First point: The counting of the priest and the wise.
[Ezek 40:1] In the twenty-fifth year of our captivity, in the beginning of the year, on the tenth of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, on that same day the hand of Jehovah was upon me, and he brought me thither.

Daniel also tells us that he also took care for those counting:

[Dan 9:1] In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans,
[Dan 9:2] in the first year of his reign, I Daniel understood by the books that the number of the years, whereof the word of Yhvh came to Jeremiah the prophet, for the accomplishment of the desolations of Jerusalem, was seventy years.

Daniel didn't work under the Chaldeans as a prophet, but as a wiseman. But, although he was a very wiseman, he also was very humble. He is recognizing that his counting failed, because:

1) he had recorded during 70 years, and JHVH promised that
2) when the 70 years be fulfilled, He shall punish the king of Babylon (Jeremiah 25:12)

Daniel himself tell us that "that same night was killed Belsahar, king of the Chaldeans (Daniel 5:30)

The 70 has gone, the 71 years is running (the first year of Darius the Medes), and they -the Jews- are still in Chaldean. His bright mind couldn't explain it. He knew that the Almighty never fails, therefore something was going in other way with Daniel's logic. He gave up, deeply worried went to consult GOD:

[Dan 9:3] And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes;
[Dan 9:4] and I prayed unto Jehovah my God, and made my confession, and said, Alas Lord! the great and terrible God, keeping covenant and loving-kindness with them that love him, and that keep his commandments:


First help
Dear Elishyah, What was wrong with the Daniel's year counting that didn't coincided with what he was expecting?

Second Point: the real commandment
Gabriel tell Daniel that (9:25) that "from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks". I have read a lot of sources that say that the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem is in Ezra 7, as you cite. Please, let's read it:

[11] And this is the copy of the letter that king Artaxerxes gave to Ezra the priest, the scribe, a scribe of the words of the commandments of Yhvh, and of his statutes to Israel:
[12] Artaxerxes, king of kings, to Ezra the priest, an accomplished scribe of the law of the God of the heavens, and so forth.
[13] I have given orders that all they of the people of Israel, and of their priests and the Levites, in my realm, who are disposed to go to Jerusalem, go with thee.
[14] Because thou art sent by the king, and by his seven counsellors, to inquire concerning Judah and Jerusalem, according to the law of thy God which is in thy hand;
[15] and to carry the silver and gold which the king and his counsellors have freely offered to the God of Israel, whose habitation is at Jerusalem,
[16] and all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, besides the voluntary offering of the people, and of the priests, who offer willingly for the house of their God which is at Jerusalem.
[17] Therefore thou shalt buy diligently with this money bullocks, rams, lambs, with their oblations and their drink-offerings, and offer them upon the altar of the house of your God which is at Jerusalem.
[18] And whatever shall seem good to thee and to thy brethren to do with the rest of the silver and the gold, that do according to the will of your God.
[19] And the vessels that have been given thee for the service of the house of thy God, deliver before the God of Jerusalem.
[20] And whatever more shall be needful for the house of thy God which thou shalt have occasion to bestow, bestow it out of the king's treasure house.
[21] And I, I Artaxerxes the king, do give orders to all the treasurers that are beyond the river, that whatever Ezra the priest and scribe of the law of the God of the heavens shall require of you, it be done diligently,
[22] unto a hundred talents of silver, and to a hundred measures of wheat, and to a hundred baths of wine, and to a hundred baths of oil, and salt without prescribing [how much].
[23] Whatever is commanded by the God of the heavens, let it be carefully done for the house of the God of the heavens; for why should there be wrath against the realm of the king and his sons?
[24] Also we inform you, as regards all the priests and Levites, singers, doorkeepers, Nethinim, and ministers of this house of God, it shall not be lawful to impose tribute, tax, and toll upon them.
[25] And thou, Ezra, after the wisdom of thy God, which is in thy hand, set magistrates and judges who may judge all the people that are beyond the river, all such as know the laws of thy God; and teach ye him that knows [them] not.
[26] And whosoever will not do the law of thy God and the law of the king, let judgment be executed diligently upon him, whether unto death, or to banishment, or to confiscation of goods, or to imprisonment.
[27] Blessed be Jehovah the God of our fathers, who has put [such a thing] as this in the king's heart, to beautify the house of Jehovah which is at Jerusalem;
[28] and has extended mercy to me before the king and his counsellors, and before all the king's mighty princes. And I was strengthened, as the hand of Jehovah my God was upon me; and I gathered together out of Israel chief men to go up with me.

Second help
Sincerely, Do you see here expressed the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem?

Some other sources mention Nehemiah:

Neh 2:7] And I said to the king, If it please the king, let letters be given me to the governors beyond the river, that they may set me forward till I come into Judah;
[Neh 2:8] and a letter to Asaph the keeper of the king's forest, that he may give me timber to make beams for the gates of the palace which [appertains] to the house, and for the wall of the city, and for the house that I shall enter into. And the king granted me, according to the good hand of my God upon me.
[Neh 2:9] And I came to the governors beyond the river, and gave them the king's letters. Now the king had sent captains of a force and horsemen with me

Third help
Is it here the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem?.

Third Point: the commandment given from heaven
Brother Elishyah, the very important commandments expressly have left from heaven (Génesis 41:25,32, 1 Samuel 16, Daniel 4:13-17, Daniel 9:23 and so on).

Fourth Help
Is this the only (Ezra 7) very important commandment that didn't leave from Heaven?.


Fourth Point
After Jesuchrist went to heaven, several sources says that, the priests still did their jobs.

Flavius Josephus says that "From Herodes till Titus burned the city there were 28 high priests" (Antiquities of the Jews, Book 20, chapter X, section 5). Luke also testify in Acts 4:1, 6; Acts 5:27. The writer of Hebrew ( 8:3-5 ) declares that the priest still were offering the oblation:
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. 4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that THERE ARE priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

But clearly Gabriel states that both the sacrifice and the oblation would cease in the midst of the week (9:27):

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice AND the oblation to cease.


Fifth help
Does the words of Gabriel: "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" coincide with the facts of hebrew 8:3-5?

Fifth Point
I invite you to count the years given in the Tanakh from Adam to the last king of Judah, when the city and the temple were destroyed.

Many are trusting in dead counter (archaeologist finding, and sources out of the tanakh), and don't consider that the tanakh is the only book alive, that no power has underground it. The dates and years that this holy book gives are true. Brother, this math is given by GOD to us, for very good purpose. Many like to figure things by interpretations but not by the exactness of the biblical math. The math of GOD is simple, but highly precise. Please don't follow the math of the tradition, because many times is controlled by "wise men" (for instance, some of these teach that the king Saul reigned 11 years, that the sons of Jacob dwell in Egypt only 210 years, and so on)

For your counting, follow:

Genesis 5; 7:11; 11:11-32;21:5; 25:26; 47:8
Exodus 12:40
Acts 13:21
1 Kings 2:11; 6:1
2Chronicles 9:30; 12:13; 13:2; 16:13; 20:31; 21:20; 22:2; 22:12: 24:1: 25:1: 26:3: 27:1; 29:1; 33:1; 33:21; 34:1; 36:2; 36:5; 36:9; 36:11

Having made this count, if will be easier to follow Jeremiah and Daniel, which I should write on the topics of the 70 weeks.

Brother, my name is José Cadena, please put me in your list for praying to the heavenly father in the name of his Son.


GOD bless you and your family.

(the following is just an essay on UBB code)

[This message has been edited by Jose Cadena (edited 09-13-98).]

IP: Logged

Elishyah

Posts: 169
Registered:

posted 09-11-1998 03:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Elishyah   Click Here to Email Elishyah     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom Brother Jose,


--- "First help
Dear Elishyah, What was wrong with the Daniel's year counting that didn't coincided with what he was expecting?"
I'll research this because I did not know that Daniel expected something different.


--- "Second help
Sincerely, Do you see here expressed the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem? "

I have considered what you have said regarding the starting of the count. The counting seems to start 13 years earlier than the actual command. I am not yet sure why. King Artaxerses wrote the decree in the 20th year of his reign and not the 7th year.

I had not looked at this because the math from the 7th year fit so well. However, with the exception of the count, all other things I can prove with scripture. I will pray for the answer to the 13 year error in my count.


--- "Third help
Is it here the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem?."
Yes. This is clearly what is talked about.
Daniel 9:25 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."
Nehemiah 4:7-18 does tells us about these troublous times.


--- "Fourth Point
After Jesuchrist went to heaven, several sources says that, the priests still did their jobs."
Yes, Brother Jose they went on as though nothing had happened because to them nothing had happened. They did not believe that the Messiah had come therefore they assumed that they were under the sacrificial law even until that time. But that Law was done away with when the veil was torn in two. The Righteous, those who believed the Messiah and understood, no longer participated in the killing of animals.


--- "Fifth help
Does the words of Gabriel: "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" coincide with the facts of hebrew 8:3-5?"
Yes.
"And He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifice AND the oblation to cease."
Yahshua did this by replacing the priesthood. If the priesthood was replaced then the work of those who were once priests is no more because we have a High Priest that sits at the right hand of The Father. So, to those that believe, the sacrifice and oblation was no more. Remember,this is the Messiah The Prince - Yahshua.
Also, Paul testified that Yahshua confirmed the covenant. Notice he said the covenant - not a covenant. There is only one covenant which can be the covenant and this the eternal one which was between Israel and Yahshua - the one made in the wilderness.

Peace and Love in Our Messiah and King,
Elishyah

[This message has been edited by Elishyah (edited 09-15-98).]

IP: Logged

Jose Cadena

Posts: 100
Registered: Aug 98

posted 09-16-1998 11:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jose Cadena   Click Here to Email Jose Cadena     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Brother Elishyah, Your Lord and my Lord Jesus the Christ give love to us. Don't forget me and my family in your pray. My Wife is Sobeida, I have two daughters: Yury, the elder, which is married and gave us a tender nietecita, called Yiry. My other daughter LiLy is studying there in USA (Minnesota).

Brother, soon I will be posting a very important point on the 23 years that neither Jews or Christian have paid attention, which is fundamental to understand some years that scholars; get a print copy a review it very carefully. It takes me a little while because I have to review my spanish-english dictionary, and wait a chance here in the computer.

GOD bless you and your family richly.

IP: Logged

All times are ET (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | EliYah's Home Page

Please read the disclaimer

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Version 5.44a
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.