posted 07-08-2000 10:25 PM         

I am hoping some one can help me with information regarding the Greek words "BY and THROUGH" in regards to the following Scripture

Colossians 1:16
Because in Him were created all that are in the heavens and that are on the earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or rulerships or principalities or authorities all have been created THROUGH Him and for Him. ( The Scriptures..by, Institute for Scripture Research)

also

Colossians 1:16
Because by means of Him all [other]* things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created THROUGH Him and for Him.
(The Kingdom Interlinear Translations of The Greek Scriptures..watchtower Bible and tract society of New York, inc. International Bible students association)

The Greek word here in the interlinear looks like an O with a hook ontop and an i with a commer next to it !

although I have seen this word translated as BY in other Translations I was wondering iff anyone versed in Greek can help as to what this word is in English.
BY or THROUGH ?

I look forward to any information in regards to the above

posted 07-09-2000 06:43 AM            

I always translate Yahushua in my mind as " The inexplicable Word of Yahweh" As John so clearly explanes in the first chapter of the gospel of John.
So, By or through "His Word" All things where created etc.
And Yahweh and his Word (Yahushua) are one.
As Your word and You are one. yet you can send it anywhere, tape it transmit it etc.

It is still You, yet it goes OUT of your being, and was part of your being and represents the very essence of you.
You order something, and it sets a series of events in motion.

Yahushua IS Yahweh's WORD (made flesh for our small peanut mind sake) He is NOT seperate from HIM. He is the first " ~~@@@ Alaph @@@!~~ " that proceeded out of Yahweh heart, himself at the very very beginning.
He IS the creative vibration of Yahweh's voice, that creates everything.
But..... we think so small and human, and managed to make an idol or deity out of ~~~~@@@ Aleph & Omega @@@~~~~.
(I use these symboles for there is no explanation for "him/it", as it is with the Form of Yahweh and the Holy Spirit the Para-kletos. And religeus people will fight you over it.)

Anyway though I through this in.

May Yahweh's 'Word' come to you and bring you Shalom.
Jozef

posted 07-09-2000 07:45 AM         

I am actually after the correct greek to English spelling of this word in the interlinear translations, if some one knows Greek and has an Greek Interlinear Translation of this Scripture would you mind posting what it is in English Thankyou.
Thanks for shareing your thoughts allthe same Josef

May Yahweh's 'Word' come to you and bring you Shalom.,also

posted 07-09-2000 11:42 AM            

Yah be with you!

I COMPLETELY Enjoyed your post above!
That is so so so true! HalluYah!
Thank you for sharing. What a blessing!

posted 07-11-2000 01:39 AM            

The first part of the verse uses the Greek word "en" which quite simply means "in."

Strong's defines it as such:

quote:

---

a prim. prep. denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by impl.) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest

---

This agrees with the later Colossian verse (17), which states that "in" Him all things consist or hold together. He is the One in Whom all things have their being or existence. In other words, He is the One through Whom Yahueh permeates His creation, as Paul told the Athenians and the Hebrews:

"For 'In him we live and move and have our being'; as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we too are his offspring'" (Acts 17:28).

"But in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom he also created the worlds. He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word (the spoken word being, compared with other scripture, the Holy Spirit)..." (Heb. 1:2, 3).

The second part of the verse uses the Greek word "dia." This can be translated, as you mentioned, either as "by" or "through." When you think "by" think "by means of." In other words, creation happened by means of Yeshua--without Him, creation could not have happened. It also happened through Him. Yeshua had a direct hand in creating the universe.

This obviously places Him before creation, because He was with the Father before the world was (John 17:5).

Strong's define this word as such:

quote:

---

a prim. prep. denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional)

---

I hope this helps you out. To answer your question again, they mean "in," "by" and "through," leaving no part of creation and sustination separate from Yeshua's existence.

Glory to Him, for He deserves it!

------------------
For Unity in the Body of Messiah,
NacharYahu [=] NacharYahu@aol.com

posted 07-11-2000 02:22 AM            

Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament
All things (ta panta). The universe as in Romans 11:35, a well-known philosophical phrase. It is repeated at the end of the verse. In him were created (en autwi ektisqh). Paul now gives the reason (oti, for) for the primacy of Christ in the work of creation (Romans 16). It is the constative aorist passive indicative ektisqh (from ktizw, old verb, to found, to create (Romans 1:25). This central activity of Christ in the work of creation is presented also in John 1:3; Hebrews 1:2 and is a complete denial of the Gnostic philosophy. The whole of creative activity is summed up in Christ including the angels in heaven and everything on earth. God wrought through "the Son of his love." All earthly dignities are included. Have been created (ektistai). Perfect passive indicative of ktizw, "stand created," "remain created." The permanence of the universe rests, then, on Christ far more than on gravity. It is a Christo-centric universe. Through him (di autou). As the intermediate and sustaining agent. He had already used en autwi (in him) as the sphere of activity. And unto him (kai eiß auton). This is the only remaining step to take and Paul takes it (1 Corinthians 15:28) See Ephesians 1:10 for similar use of en autwi of Christ and in Colossians 1:19; Colossians 20 again we have en autwi, di autou, eiß auton used of Christ. See Hebrews 2:10 for di on (because of whom) and di ou (by means of whom) applied to God concerning the universe (ta panta). In Romans 11:35 we find ex autou kai di autou kai eiß auton ta panta referring to God. But Paul does not use ex in this connection of Christ, but only en, dia, and eiß. See the same distinction preserved in 1 Corinthians 8:6 (ex of God, dia, of Christ).

The Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament
Copyright © Broadman Press 1932,33, Renewal 1960. All rights reserved.

[This message has been edited by OldShepherd (edited 07-11-2000).]

IP: Logged

posted 07-13-2000 07:33 PM         

Thanks for the information in regards to By & Through

posted 07-20-2000 06:19 PM         

One more thing I would like to add. This verse is not talking about the physical creation. The things created by, through, for and in Yashua are not rocks, trees, planets, and stars, but "thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers." It is a soterlogical creation (a "salvation creation") that is being referred to here, not the creation of Genesis 1:1.

In His Service,

posted 07-21-2000 01:16 AM         

I looked up the scripture and this is what I have found in the Greek.

Colossians 1:16

English translated version:

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in the earth, visable and invisible whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities or powers, all things were created by him, and for him."

1. 'For' should be translated 'Because'

and it turns out that the word 'by' is incorrectly translated in the sentence.

2. 'By' should be translated 'in' him, or more correctly 'in himself' or the truest form: 'out from within himself' (Epsilon-Nu)

It is an emphatic reflective pronoun - locative - (location oriented). Which adds to the meaning: Out from within Himself,

(which also implies a state of rest)

The 'Himself' is Y'Shua.

'all' is Pata meaning 'everything', so that means: he is the creator and maker of everything, not just the things listed here.

He created the trees, seasons, air, thermodynamics, gravity, Adam, David, the eye and the Bison...everything

3. 'all things' is translated 'The whole of everything was called into order or being'

In verse 15 it gives a slightly different picture also:

'who is the image of the invisible YHWH, the firstborn of every creature:'

1. The image is the 'icon'.

2. The word 'first-born' is very deceiving, it should be Prototokos - The One who has preeminence over all creation.

So the verses should read:

"who is the icon of the invisible YHWH, the One who has preeminance over all creation, because in Y'Shua was the whole of everything called out and set in order and being, everything that is in the heaven(s)and the earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, dominions, prinicpalities, or powers, the whole of everything was created by Y'Shua and for Y'Shua. And he was the head of the whole and everything, and by Y'Shua all things are held together."

I think that is a lot better and more accurate, it gives noew insight.

Paul had his work cut out for him with the Colossians. Most of them were either Gnostics or influenced by the teaching. He wrote this letter to refute the heretical teachings that were being perpetuated as to who Y'Shua really was.

The Gnostics mixed Jewish Legalism with Oriental Mysticism and threw in a little Greek Philosophy. The Colossians were Synctetizers and Hetrodyners and paganists.

Syncetization: The appempt to reconcile conflicting and opposite beliefs. The mixing of religious philosophies.

Hetrodyning: Mixing of Faiths.

Gnostics believed that if anything can not be conceived through logic and knowledge then it is a lie. Knowledge was SALVATION.

They also believed that matter (flesh)was evil, and matter could not be god. So they wanted to relegate Messiah to a Demiurge or a lesser elohim. This was a precurser of the Arian teachings and later the teaching of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

They thought that since Y'Shua the Messiah came in the flesh or was a part of the material or matter derived world, he had to be lower than YHWH. Evil even, that is why sometimes he is described in Greek erroneously as the Morning Star or the Day Star (Phosporous) which is the title for Satan. Bad translating, and it will cause many to be deceived at a fake 2nd coming.

Paul was trying to explain as John was, that this was not the case. Y'Shua is YHWH. and not an emmination of YHWH. The Gnostic belief was in degrees of god-hood, in a downward motion. Paul was also speaking to the Trinitarian concept and the Bi-unity concepts that had cropped up because of paganism.

Hebrews were monotheist, believing in One Elohim. Indeed YHWH fulfilled his word when he said in Exodus to Moses 'I will be what I wil be unto you." Being a Monotheist it was difficult to explain the Messiah creating. But it was not necessary, it was spoken of everyday:

Hear O Israel YHWH your Elohim is but One Elohim Alone.

Hope that helps, It took me a few hours to get it right.

novice :-)

posted 08-07-2000 07:12 PM         

Thanks for your time,information & thoughts in regards to my question posted.

Shalom & Love
WAYne

Love is patient, is kind, Love does not envy, Love does not boast, is not puffed up, Love does not behave indecently, does not seek its own, is not prevoked, reckons not the evil, Love does not rejoice over the unrighteousness, but rejoices in The Truth, it covers all, believes all, expects all, endures all.
1corinthians 13:4-7